0:06: I'm Piyush,0:06: thank you for the introduction.0:07: I'm one of the founders of Reo.Dev.0:09: and as you can tell, we are in the space of marketing to developers and hopefully making money from that, from that endeavor.0:17: And I'm so happy that my session is after the coffee break, but, if, if the coffee hasn't done its job, hopefully the cash register ringing will do its job.0:27: So I'm here to talk about code to cash, and the focus of the session will be like we've all put so much time and energy into building a good product, which a lot of developers GTM teams are using, which is fantastic.0:39: But what is needed to keep a business running is to get the revenue going, and that's what we work on.0:46: In the last 2.5 years, , we, we have worked with almost 2500 people who are in the space.0:53: I would have spoken with about 1000 DevTool marketers, marketers, sales people, community managers, leadership, founders.1:03: And there are some very common challenges.1:05: I think the challenges that came across are very common, repetitive, and that's why I'm here to talk about it.1:12: What we do or what we help devtool marketers do is convert developer intent signals into revenue, right?1:19: And what we'll talk about is coming from here.1:22: Honestly, this is not my learning or my wisdom.1:26: This is coming from conversations from very generous people who have shared all their challenges, all their insights with us.1:34: So behind everything that I talk, there are at least 3000 hours of conversations, research, and best practices that people have shared with us.1:43: So let's get, let's get started, right?1:46: Let's start with something simple and something that we all agree upon.1:50: That selling to developers is hard, isn't it?1:53: Does everybody agree selling to developers is hard?1:57: Anybody who feels it's not.2:00: You know, in, in 2.5 years of doing this, I have never had a situation where somebody did not agree on this, never.2:08: Like you, you can never say never, but on this I can say never.2:12: Nobody's ever said it's easy, right?2:14: But the question is why?2:16: What makes it so hard?2:18: Is it that developers are from a different planet or there is some mysterious code that nobody's managed to crack?2:24: So we, we did some research into this, right?2:26: We spoke to 100 developers and engineering leaders and CTOs that look, why is it so difficult?2:33: Why do you guys hate or dislike marketers so much or dislike sales people so much.2:38: This is what came up.2:41: That look, what we are dealing with is very complicated.2:44: It's very technical, and this is the root cause.2:47: This is what makes our category very different and difficult.2:51: Like if you were selling umbrellas, I don't think we would need an umbrella marketer conference.2:56: I think we would do just fine, but we're selling a very technical product.3:01: So I'm gonna talk about how does this manifest.3:04: So these are some of the insights we got from those 100+ conversations.3:09: Why does it matter that the tools are complex or technical?3:13: See, so the first thing is, it's solving a problem, not everybody has that problem.3:18: See, for example, we've got like some of the best DevTools in the world in this room here, right?3:24: So we've got people from HashiCorp.3:26: Does everybody need HashiCorp?3:29: Even a tool which is so popular and so amazing, not everybody needs it, and those who need it don't need it all the time.3:36: There is a certain window when you're thinking about scaling up your infra, that's when you need it.3:41: Before and after, sorry, don't bug me.3:43: Let me do my work, right?3:44: So it's a very technical product, not everybody needs it.3:47: People don't wake up in the morning thinking, I'll buy a tool today.3:51: There is a problem.3:52: There is an itch I need to scratch or a problem or a fire.3:55: That's when people need it.3:58: Beyond that, there are other challenges.4:01: See, this tool powers the core infra of any business.4:04: If you're in data streaming, if you're in security, any Deadpool category, it's powering the basic infra.4:11: If a DevTool goes down, the business goes down.4:15: So you can't take risks.4:16: You have to be very, very clear about what is the product you're choosing.4:20: Does it fit your tech stack?4:21: Does it give you the scaling you need, and therefore evaluation cycles are long.4:27: So far, there is nothing that differentiates a developer except the categories is very advanced.4:33: Now let's talk about what's different about the developers.4:36: See, they are very technical buyers.4:38: Many of the sellers are not.4:41: Many sellers are not.4:42: The other day, , I was talking to my co-founder.4:45: He's also the CTO.4:46: He's a very difficult man to please.4:48: He came bumbling out of a conversation with a sales guy and said, I love this conversation.4:53: I talked to the VP sales.4:55: He could answer all my questions.4:57: And I thought to myself that should not be an exception.5:00: Like a sales guy is supposed to answer all your questions.5:03: Why is that an exception?5:04: But in this market it is, right?5:07: Imagine if you're talking to the VP engineering of a company trying to sell something that does Kubernetes security.5:13: It's very hard to answer their questions, and that puts us at a disadvantage.5:18: It's not a level playing field.5:20: We don't know everything that our audience wants to know, and that is why they don't want to get on calls with sales people, right.5:27: And then the last piece is so unique.5:29: Like this was the biggest shock to me that I can just build it.5:32: Why should I buy?5:35: So anyhow, these are so many challenges that we have to deal with and because of it, honestly standing here, I don't envy your job.5:43: It's a very difficult job.5:45: So what we are doing, what we are doing at your do is trying to give you some superpowers, right?5:51: Trying to help you with some of these challenges, and we'll talk about that, right?5:56: So we hear you, we are here to help you.5:58: Let's talk about how.6:01: So if you look at any typical marketing funnel, like this is like decades of wisdom.6:04: There is an AIDA framework, there's an ACCA framework, you, you name it, right?6:08: You can pick any framework, and there are a certain number of people who are aware of your product - out of that cohort, some people show interest.6:17: Some people consider, some people end up buying pretty simple and straightforward, right?6:21: Not easy but simple.6:23: If you look at a developer tool funnel.6:26: Looks like this.6:29: Like I love the reaction.6:33: We can relate to this, right?6:39: I have a friend who runs a DevTool startup, right?6:41: I was talking to him and he said, I asked him, how do you know who's your user?6:46: He said, we go to conferences, we bump into them, and they are generous to tell us.6:51: Walk into any room here.6:52: This is not the dynamic.6:54: This is unique to this room, right?6:56: That's not how you should be figuring out who your users are, right?7:00: Another person I was talking to, sales guy, right, and he said, I reached out to somebody and They said, oh we evaluated your product a year back, and we did not find these one or two features, so we moved on.7:12: And the team had no idea that happened.7:16: Right?7:17: That's not how it should be, right?7:19: There should not be a huge fog and then suddenly from that fog, an opportunity emerges and then either converts or extinguishes equally fast.7:27: Right.7:28: So this is, this is the challenge that and this leads to a lot of opportunity leakage, right?7:33: We spoke about it.7:34: If you don't know who your users are, how do you tell them?7:37: How can you make their lives better?7:40: Right What causes this?7:43: Let's talk about this.7:44: Now we're getting slightly technical, but I'm sure like this audience, what causes pipeline fog.7:49: Compare this to any B2B SAAS product out there.7:52: The journey starts on your website.7:54: And anybody remotely interested will sign up.7:57: So they give you some identity that I'm so and so person and I'm looking at your product.8:02: Now let's translate that into a developer tool.8:06: Right, and I can look at the faces and the reactions.8:08: The, the, the pain is visible, right?8:12: People can use your product by logging into an IDE.8:15: You have no idea.8:16: People can download your product, install it, run it.8:18: You have no idea.8:20: A company like Bosch could be using your product in production.8:22: You have no idea.8:24: And how is that fair?8:25: So the first problem is a lot of the interactions that your users are having with your products are happening off-platform, and that information is not coming to you.8:35: Even if it is happening on platform, right, let's say somebody comes and signs up, they sign up for the Gmail ID.8:43: Good luck identifying that person.8:45: It's, it's a, it's a nightmare.8:46: It's very, very difficult.8:47: It's probably the toughest problem in this whole industry, right?8:51: So if you don't know who your users are, how do you do any kind of marketing or go to market?8:57: Let's say you have some stroke of luck, you figure out who your users are.9:01: Are they curious or are they actually wanting to buy something?9:04: So many times we've had people where, OK, 4 people from Microsoft signed up.9:09: The sales team goes into prospects Microsoft, nobody responds.9:13: Because 4 people from Microsoft means nothing.9:16: It does not mean that there's an opportunity.9:18: These are 4 people who are very curious.9:20: Your product is really cool to attract people from Microsoft.9:23: That is it.9:25: So it does not mean there's an opportunity and finally shifting priorities.9:29: There is no engineering team in the world which will say I have bandwidth.9:33: Like 0.9:34: So therefore, if your product does not solve the current sprint, it will not be picked up.9:42: If it's not part of their road map, it will not happen.9:45: So you have to be current and shifting priority.9:48: So these are the reasons why pipeline fog happens.9:52: I'll share some data on this, right?9:56: It causes inefficiencies at every step, but let me skip this.10:00: Come here.10:04: 35% of the companies, right, that was showing purchase intent, never made it to people's CRM.10:11: And this is actual data from so many companies we work with.10:15: They were showing purchase intent, but it never made it to your CRM, nobody was looking at them because it was just invisible.10:27: Let's go back here because of this inefficiency, what's happening today is, see, imagine you're a marketer trying to run ads, right, or trying to communicate with with your users.10:37: If you don't know who they are, how do you communicate with them?10:40: You're passing on a lead to sales.10:42: Microsoft example.10:44: You saw 5 people signed up.10:46: Amazing, qualifies every way possible, right?10:48: Go to sales, sales comes back empty handed, tells you your lead qualification sucks.10:54: There's nothing wrong that you're doing.10:56: Right, so these scenarios have helped have happened in every DevTool company out there.11:01: Devrell is a cost center, right?11:02: There's no direct correlation.11:04: So many DevRel I've spoken with said the deal was influenced by my team, but we don't get the credit and vice versa, right?11:11: We, we don't have any attribution.11:13: And that, that again is a challenge.11:15: All of these are business challenges.11:18: Question is what if instead of looking at it as a funnel we start looking at as stages, right?11:26: So instead of looking at it as an awareness intent consideration conversion funnel, we just look at look at it as stages.11:34: Look at the stages.11:35: Stage one to the right is purchase intent.11:38: Who has purchase intent today?11:41: It doesn't matter how long they've been using your product.11:43: It doesn't matter how long they've known your product.11:45: They have intent today.11:47: If you could figure that out, that solves a ton of problems.11:51: And if you can differentiate that from who is an ongoing user.11:56: But has no purchase intent.11:58: And again, I've got data on this as well.12:00: I'll show you.12:01: Not everybody who's using your product will become a customer.12:05: And again, that's a very unique thing to this room.12:08: I don't think anybody struggles with that problem to the scale that we do, but if we can differentiate that these are the companies who have purchased intent, well these are free users, right?12:18: And then one step before that who has an urgent need.12:23: If, if we could have a clear definition of these stages, that solves many problems.12:27: And in 2 minutes, I'll tell you all the problems we spoke about get solved by this.12:34: Imagine if you could know who has purchased intent and you only pass on those leads to sales.12:39: Sales does not come back empty handed, does not question lead qualification, and things are nice and sundry.12:46: Versus if you could figure out who is a free user does not want to become a paid customer, what will you do there?12:53: We have a huge audience which is free users, does not want to become paid customers.12:57: What is the strategy there?13:00: And I think here I want to borrow something from Apple's playbook.13:04: If Apple can make us buy a new phone just by changing the color.13:09: We can make our free users by our enterprise plan.13:12: I think we've got to believe that if, if we can buy a new iPhone every year, which has no difference, we can buy or we can make our users buy an enterprise plan.13:21: We got to make them aware that whatever you're struggling with can be solved if you come on board and become a customer.13:28: The $50 million of developer time that you're spending gets cut by $400,000 if you just become a paying customer.13:36: We have expertise.13:37: We will help you.13:38: Plenty of companies have done this very, very successfully.13:43: If we know who has an urgent need, we can bring them directly to purchase consideration, right, and so on and so forth, right?13:51: If you know who's curious, we can nurture them, not waste time there, not waste dollars there and so on.13:56: So this in our view, is what solves many of the problems, sounds very exciting, sounds like the silver bullet.14:04: So where's the catch?14:06: In this framework, the catch is, how do you figure this out?14:10: Like if, if somebody could tell you I have this data, I'll give it to you.14:13: Is there anybody who would say no to this?14:16: But I can tell you who has purchased intent.14:18: I can tell you who's a free user, not ready to buy.14:20: I can tell you who has an immediate need.14:23: That sounds like the holy grail.14:25: So who will not buy it, right?14:26: So the problem is this data is not easily available, right?14:30: And that's where intent signals come in.14:32: This is our Steve Ballmer moment.14:34: If I could jump up and down on the stage, then I would be shouting intent signals.14:41: And then the next stage to that is intent signals, intent signals, intent signals.14:44: Anyhow, so what we've done and what I am here to actually present is this study that's been done over 2 years on 4.5 billion data points.14:56: These are activities developers have done, right, , across 120 companies and across 25 different platforms, and here is what we got out of this analysis.15:08: We spoke about this.15:09: The first thing that we were astounded to figure out, 35% of companies who wanted to buy, but not even in the CRM.15:17: If they were there, they did not even have an owner assigned to it.15:20: Nobody was looking at it.15:22: Why?15:23: Because it was not visible.15:26: There was a team of 5 people evaluating, all with their Gmails, or they never signed up.15:31: They were struggling, went on to Reddit, asked a question there, went to Slack, asked a question there, got some answers, cobbled something together, but did not become a customer.15:40: At that moment they would 100% become a customer.15:44: But they did not because the outreach was either mistimed or just did not happen.15:51: Real scenario, somebody from Sony was evaluating this product we work with the team just did not know.15:57: Then Sony went on, built their own thing in-house.15:59: 6 months later, the team reached out, they said, Sorry, we've already built it in-house.16:04: It's too much commitment now to junk all of that, what I'm going to go and tell my boss.16:09: That the 6 months of developers time was all waste.16:13: I can't get budget now.16:14: So real scenario, right?16:17: So this is one insight came out of it.16:18: 35% of purchase companies ready to buy did not even become opportunities.16:24: 75% of companies who are opportunities have no sign of purchase intent.16:32: Like I said, 10 people signing up is not purchase intent.16:35: If they have been using an open source, that's not purchase intent, and so on and so forth.16:41: Interestingly, every tool in the world will qualify this as an opportunity.16:48: We cannot convince them to buy.16:49: If they have no reason to go from free to enterprise, you cannot compete with your own free product.16:55: So you have to generate that interest, you have to generate that awareness that if they make the switch, what do they stand to gain?17:03: And that's what's needed here.17:06: Another one.17:07: And please, , if anybody has a different approach here, please do let me know.17:12: 70% of sales teams get assigned accounts once a year.17:17: Is there any team here that follows a different approach?17:22: Lovely.17:24: One in the room.17:26: So that's the point.17:27: Like, how can you, how can you have a static list for the full year, not considering who needs my product, who is struggling, who is growing.17:36: What is true in January is definitely not true in December, most likely not true in April itself.17:41: So we got to have this dynamic, we got to read, we got to study our users, and then according to that assigned opportunities to the team.17:50: And finally, 60% of the companies in the CRM are not even qualified.17:55: My CTO gets an email from a company pitching us Kubernetes scaling solutions.18:01: We are not even on Kubernetes.18:02: Well, we weren't a year back.18:04: Now we are.18:05: So 60% of companies are not qualified.18:09: So this is, this is the manifestation of the pipeline fog problem.18:15: And what we have done is we have tried to put together some intent signals at every stage.18:22: So if you look at the purchase intent stage, what are the intent signals, what is visible and what stays invisible.18:31: I'll give you just 2 minutes to, to look at this.18:33: Slightly loaded.18:38: Any questions, we don't have to keep questions for the end.18:43: Yeah.18:44: Oh, let me.18:47: Do some mic running.18:48: There was a question correct.18:53: So on the topic of static list, right, so I'm, I'm curious to know, it's very easy for a company that's early stage to keep it dynamic, right?19:05: Like based on outages or whatever, right?19:08: Like develop that dynamic list, if you will, but I'm curious, you know, like at scale, have you seen other companies do it successfully and Great question.19:19: I think so typically what happens at scale is you have a big team who has mapped out your almost entire strong fit ICP audience, right?19:29: What happens in those cases and Manish.19:32: I, I, I didn't get your name.19:35: But what happens at that stage is, see, every salesperson will have a list, but who should they go after today?19:43: That intelligence is not offered to them.19:46: So when I say a static list, it does not mean that you're getting a new list every 3 months.19:51: That's not very useful also because you can't build relationships, you can't follow the account, but there is an opportunity today?19:59: Who should you nurture and who should you target or who should you prospect?20:03: That I've seen companies do pretty successfully.20:08: But Great question.20:11: Any other questions?20:14: Good.20:14: Let's talk about this.20:15: So if you talk about purchase intent, typically what we mean by purchase intent is somebody either raising their hand or booking a sales call or responding to a sales message, right?20:26: It's great, but this is the 65%.20:28: Let me talk about the 35%, what they are doing.20:31: There a developer is struggling.20:35: I'll give you an example.20:36: We use Click House and so we recently became a paying customer as well.20:42: The reason for that is we were facing some latency issues.20:45: Within a week, we signed the contract.20:48: But we did not go and book a demo.20:50: We did not go and book a sales call.20:51: We were struggling, somebody reached out, got their timing right.20:53: We became a customer.20:55: Happens all the time.20:57: So in the 35% of the cases when we see purchase intent but no opportunity, this is what's happening developers are struggling alone trying to figure out, trying to scale up.21:07: The other very good signal is enterprises pay for security.21:11: They pay for compliance.21:12: So if you see a big enterprise using your product, who are you targeting?21:16: Are you only targeting the engineering leader?21:18: Are you also targeting the security leader or the compliance leader?21:23: I'm sure everybody knows Postman.21:25: For Postman, the 1st 10 customers were not CTOs.21:30: The 1st 10 customers were CISOs.21:33: Who are very concerned that so many developers in their company are using Postman, but are they being compliant about it?21:40: Is data leaking out?21:42: Is it creating a question mark on their compliance certifications?21:47: And that, that story is true for so many companies out there.21:50: So security compliance is a great signal.21:53: If you can get those folks involved, that could get you a deal.21:57: , usage limits reached.21:58: This is easier to track in some cases, not always.22:01: Another very good signal is engineering org changes, scaling up, scaling down.22:06: Like imagine if somebody is bringing on board a lot of platform engineers.22:10: That costs a lot.22:11: If you can go in and say instead of hiring 5 people, hire my product.22:16: This will solve the job.22:16: You have an immediate ROI pitch.22:19: And this does not become visible easily.22:22: We can all go and ask our teams to have visibility of what's happening in your target account and their engineering org on a real-time basis.22:31: And what does it mean?22:33: So these are some signals that we have seen correlate very strongly with purchase intent.22:38: , mining these signals religiously and making them available to the go to market teams helps a lot.22:45: I think the second segment is very interesting because for a lot of DevTool companies, that's where the bulk is.22:50: If you're a successful DevTool company, you have a lot of people using your product and that shows up, that shows up as product data, telemetry signals, but there's more.22:58: Like you can look at people who are asking questions again and again.23:02: If they're asking questions over a multiple, over a multiple week period, they're using a product.23:08: Right.23:08: And you might not see them in the product data because again, Gmail IDs, right, self-hosted deployments.23:14: It's not easy to find those people.23:17: But if you just look at who's asking questions, support tickets, CLI activity, all of that will tell you that you have a much bigger user base.23:25: We've had instances where a company's product was used by Tesla, and they had no idea.23:31: That Tesla is a long term user and that's happened again and again and again, every single time.23:38: Moving on to - who needs - who has an urgent need.23:42: This is very interesting because this is something that gets overlooked all the time.23:46: You can look at your funnel, but you can't look at somebody who has a need but is not talking to you today.23:52: And where do you find those people?23:54: Those people are found online.23:56: And those people today unfortunately are not searching on Google.24:00: They are going to LLMs or they're going to some forum.24:03: Right that's where you can find those people or they're looking at your competition and so on and so forth.24:08: You can find proxy signals again, scaling up the team is a very good example.24:12: Somebody leaving is a great example.24:14: I've had companies convert big accounts because the developer or the team that built that system has left.24:22: And now the expertise of managing that in-house is gone.24:25: So what do you do?24:27: You pay the next test, which is the experts out there.24:31: So tracking who has an urgent need is also a great signal and then beyond that is kind of spreading serendipity.24:39: So you've got a lot of curious and aware users, just make them like keep nurturing them.24:44: Don't leave them alone, but don't push them too hard.24:47: They're not ready to buy.24:48: They will be your champions.24:50: And then the last segment, technically qualified, very, very important.24:54: I think every DevTool out there is not built for everybody.24:57: You have to figure out who needs it or at least who can, who can use it in future, like if you're built on Kafka.25:04: And if you're reaching out to people who have nothing to do with data streaming, but is a big company, that is a waste of time and effort and resources.25:13: So this is how we've, we've kind of graded intent signals to get a slightly better picture of who's at what stage, and then every stage obviously calls for a slightly different treatment.25:24: Somebody ready to buy, get sales, somebody who's a free user has to be convinced of why they should talk to you, what's in it for them.25:34: And I'll just wrap up in a few more minutes, but this is something that we found some of the most overlooked signals across the industry.25:43: Any kind of CLI activity is a fantastic signal.25:47: And when I come to the next slide, you will see what I'm comparing this with.25:52: I'm comparing this with something like a pricing page visit.25:55: It sounds like the holy grail, but sorry to tell you it's not.25:59: It's, it's, it's really, it's really weak.26:01: All it is telling you is somebody wants to see, OK, how much money are you making?26:05: Or at best, is this an affordable software or is this a very expensive software I should stop evaluation right now.26:12: So it's, it's really not, .26:15: But going back CLI activity, great signal.26:18: If somebody has taken the pain to download your image and install it on the local machine, that person is interested at least.26:26: , developer struggles, we spoke about it.26:28: This is something that we have the responsibility, the duty to track and take care of.26:34: One question here, , do we have different forums for different types of users?26:40: Like if we feel that this user can become a paying customer versus this user will never become or probably not become a paying customer, are we giving them different treatments or different communities at least?26:52: Or are we bunching them all in the same group where the loudest noise is getting the most attention?26:59: Very low hanging fruit, slightly different graded communities and, and we're not asking you to treat them differently, just aligning that with the business priorities.27:08: That's how we convert a DevRel from not just an investment but an ROI driven org.27:16: Team evaluations, fantastic signal.27:18: Again, one person is great, but if there's a whole team involved, moves much faster, tells you that it's a company priority.27:25: Enterprise security and compliance features, engineering org changes, competitive intelligence.27:30: These are some signals that we've not seen a lot of people capture but can be pretty powerful.27:35: And then quickly jumping on to what's overrated, , pricing page visits, it's like we, we've got to stop rating them too high - bid stream data.27:45: I think bidstream data has played a very important role when there was nothing else, but of late, what's happening is Google searches are giving way to chatbots and therefore what's being searched on Google is not, , is not as powerful as it used to be.27:59: And even if it is, you got to look into the future, 3 years into the future.28:03: We don't believe it will be as powerful as it is or as it was.28:08: Isolated product signups, community participation, all of these are good signals but not purchase intent signals, and I will leave you with this last final thoughts, .28:19: We have seen this work.28:20: We have seen this work time and again where intent signals are the key to cracking go to market.28:26: I don't think we disagree.28:27: I think what's been lacking is good intent signals.28:32: Legacy ones don't work.28:34: I think one huge shift in the industry is going from company level to individual level.28:39: Like somebody at SpaceX is good, is fine, but John from SpaceX is looking at your product, is what we need to get.28:47: And if you can get that, that's so much more powerful.28:53: Last two things we got to invest in GTM engineering.28:56: It's probably the best investment we can make right now.28:59: That is the role that can bring together intent signals from all sources and channel the right data to the right person.29:07: Who should sales be talking to?29:08: Who should DevRel be prioritizing?29:10: Who should marketing be focusing on?29:12: All of that is orchestrated by the go to market engineer.29:16: Great investment, find the best talent possible on this one.29:19: And then last one is intent signals and AI.29:21: Amazing combination.29:23: I'm sure my previous speaker spoke about it.29:25: I won't be able to point, yeah.29:28: Awesome.29:29: Any questions?29:29: This is what we wanted to leave you with.29:33: All righty, I think we might have time.29:37: All righty, we're, we're at time.29:39: We're gonna take this one and this one and any other questions, you all are out on the floor in your in the Expo Center.29:46: So we're gonna take these two questions, one in person, one on here, and then any other questions I am gonna politely ask, get directed to Reo.Dev’s booth, , so that we can, , continue on with the content, but we're gonna go in person and then we'll go slide up.30:01: Oh me, , hi.30:07: You, the one of the last indicators intent signals that you listed that could be that is often overrated is you listed community engagement.30:18: Can you provide an example of how this is could be considered overrated or how it's overused or maybe doesn't give you enough insight?30:26: Could you share more about that?30:28: Absolutely.30:28: Great question.30:29: Let me qualify that.30:30: It's a, it's an overrated signal from a revenue perspective.30:33: Because what we've seen is the most passionate people are the ones who love your product and just want to contribute or just want to build something with it may not always be a customer.30:44: They are very, very important.30:46: Don't get me wrong, but they might not always be a good like revenue opportunity.30:51: Somebody from Microsoft loves your product, does not make Microsoft an opportunity.30:55: So we got to qualify it accordingly.30:59: Great, and the slide question, any I know that you, you had that slide with 6 or 7 examples, , within that, any unexpected signals that you want to call out that can be predictable revenue drivers.31:12: I think downsizing.31:15: We didn't expect that to be such a good signal, but sometimes it can be a fantastic signal, especially if your product aligns with that.31:23: I'll give you an example.31:23: It's a Kubernetes cost reduction as a category, has a pretty solid correlation with downsizing.31:30: If a if a team is is cloud native and they're downsizing, probably a good time to pitch a cost saving tool.31:38: Wonderful.31:39: Let's give a huge round of applause to our speaker as well as again gratitude to our Reo.Dev for investing in this.31:48: Thank you so much.
