Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (00:02)
Hello everyone. Today we're talking about something every DevTool company eventually runs into. You've got developers using your product, maybe even loving it, but turning that into enterprise revenue, that's where things get messy. To break this down, I am joined by Philip, co-founder at Nakora. He has worked across SEO, outbound, positioning, conversion, basically the entire growth stack for DevTools and has a very strong point of view of what actually drives revenue versus what just looks good on paper. Philip, it's so great to have you here.
I would love a quick introduction and you know, what you're building at Nakora.
Filip Nakov (00:36)
So I'm Filip Nakov. I'm the co-founder at Nakora. We are a GTM agency specifically focused on technical products. like dev tools, APIs, data infrastructure, AI platforms, things like that. What we do is we help these companies figure out their positioning, their messaging, and then build and execute the right go-to market around that.
So, and the type of companies we worked with, it really like varies from the term of the stage. But the company, but the common threat is they all have like technical audience in one shape or form. Like some are API first companies, some are API second, meaning like they have a platform, but they are not solely focusing on developers.
but there's always a technical buyer somewhere in the picture.
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (01:35)
got it. This is super helpful and you know we all know that technical buyers are even more difficult to sort of figure out and to sell to so I'm sure very exciting work and thank you so much Philip for sort of joining us. Would love to sort of dive into it and understand from you. So a DevTool generally you know how their journey goes is that they get some traction and there is immediate instinct to go enterprise.
But from your experience, how often is that the right move? Or do you feel that there are signals which indicate that a company is right now ready for an enterprise motion?
Filip Nakov (02:13)
So actually that's a great question. And honestly, like there's no magic moment where someone tells you like, okay, now you need to go enterprise, right? To go after enterprises. It's kind of happens organically in most cases, I would say, but the problem is like most companies don't recognize this when it's happening. So like what we've seen in multiple times is when a company grows.
I don't know, like let's say a few millions in revenue, selling just to individual developers or maybe even just like small teams, small accounts. And after a while they noticed they hit like a growth plateau. Right. And they are like sitting there. Why are asking themselves like.
Why aren't we growing anymore? And that's a very common question. And they keep like hiring more developers. That's kind of the number one solution they think of. They keep improving their product. They keep doing what actually got them there.
But that's exactly the problem that we've noticed. Like what got you to a few million selling to individual devs or even like small accounts, it's not what will get you to the next level. And the signal is usually, I think that when you start seeing bigger companies showing interest in your product, but...
They're not converting for some reason. Like one example is, you have like a developer inside these companies, some of these enterprises who already is using your tool, let's say, they love it and they're your champions. But like the deal is not closing, right? And the reason is because like you are still talking to the developer in your messaging. So.
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (04:02)
Got it.
Filip Nakov (04:04)
but on your website everywhere. And I think that the person who actually, not thinking like, but the person who signs and check is not, who signs the check is not the developer.
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (04:07)
Okay.
Yeah.
Filip Nakov (04:18)
It's CTO,
right? In some cases it's the VP of engineering. It's the security officer. It's recruitment maybe. And your entire like go-to-market is just like not built for that. So the point where it makes sense is really when you notice the individual developer motion is kind of like plateauing slowly, I would say. And there's like the man from bigger accounts that are just like...
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (04:39)
Yeah.
Mixed.
Filip Nakov (04:46)
not capturing and some companies realize this early and they start building this right from the beginning now even though it's rare but other figure out way after like i don't know maybe two years of banging their head against the wall like wondering why the revenue is still flat and the thing is
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (04:47)
Thank
Thank
Filip Nakov (05:10)
even if you're early stage, even if you're in seed, even if you know the product is going to be sold to enterprise, eventually you're going to target enterprises, you should start thinking about this from day one. Not necessarily right like executing on the full enterprise playbook, but at least like understand that your messaging needs to speak to more than just the developer.
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (05:23)
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Filip Nakov (05:40)
who's going to use your tool in their terminal. Because retrofitting all of this later is way harder than just building from the start.
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (05:53)
Got it. Makes sense, Phillip. So what I'm understanding is that while there is no magic moment that this is when you should start targeting enterprises, you see signs when developer revenue starts plateauing and you see that there is interest from enterprise, but it's not converting. But what is more important is that when you are starting your enterprise motion, what messaging are you using? Who are you actually reaching out to and then making sure that
When you start your enterprise motion, you are geared towards that.
Filip Nakov (06:27)
Okay, we need to cut here. So what's the original question in the document about this?
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (06:29)
short.
No, no,
I didn't ask a question. I was just sort of reiterating whatever you said. So I was just saying that, you know, from what you said, and correct me if I understood it right, is that there is no magic moment when you know that you need to go enterprise. You sort of start seeing signs when developers are, the revenue from developers starts plateauing and you're seeing enterprise interest, but the revenue is not happening because when you are reaching out to enterprises,
The more important thing is what messaging are you using? Are you targeting the right person? So I was just sort of reiterating that. There was no question. No worries. So, Philip, my next question is that can early-stage DevTools also sell to enterprise customers or do you usually see that happening at a certain maturity stage?
Filip Nakov (07:09)
Yes.
Okay.
So, yeah, I mean, we kind of touched on this a bit early, right? With the timing question, but to answer like this directly, Early stage dev tools can absolutely like sell to enterprise customers. And there's no like a rule that says you need to be a series A or making like millions before you go after bigger accounts. But...
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (07:32)
And then.
Filip Nakov (07:55)
You know, the reality is like the framework, the approach is the same regardless of your stage. Like it's the same fundamentals. You need to kind of understand your correct ideal customer persona.
You need to understand the buying committee and you need messaging that speaks to enterprise decision makers. Whatever you're like a seed stage or a series A or a maturity or mature company, the framework doesn't really change. But what changes your resources and your capacity to execute on it. Like a seed stage company probably
I don't know that doesn't have like the budget to run like full account based marketing program, right? And hire like a dedicated enterprise sales team and do all of that like at once, but they can still get the fundamentals right. And they can still like make sure their homepage doesn't just like talk to individual developers. They can still make sure like their messaging addresses.
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (08:50)
got it.
Filip Nakov (09:02)
the people who actually signs checks, like I said, at the bigger companies. And honestly, it's like some of these companies that come to us, come to Nakora, they're already making few millions and their positioning is still completely wrong. Like I've seen companies that have been around for years, they have revenue, they have customers and their homepage still reads like it's as...
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (09:07)
one.
Mm-hmm.
Filip Nakov (09:30)
chat GPD to write it, you know, that enrich your data with custom workflows and some AI buzzwords thrown in, the user. And then the user like doesn't understand what the product really does. So maturity doesn't automatically mean you have this figured out. But I think that the real question here isn't like, we mature enough?
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (09:52)
Got it.
Filip Nakov (09:58)
to sell to enterprise, it's more like, we have the fundamentals in place? Because like we've seen seed stage companies that nail their positioning from the start and they close like enterprise deals very early. And we've seen companies that grow to a few millions and they can close an enterprise deal to save their life because like everything is still...
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (10:17)
got it.
Yeah.
Filip Nakov (10:27)
built for the individual developer slash small accounts. So stage matters less than people think. The fundamentals matter way, way more.
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (10:32)
Got it.
Got it. Makes sense, Philip. And I think you mentioned a very interesting couple of points that you need to define your ICP and you need to figure out who that buying committee, et cetera, is. So how do you actually define enterprise ICP for DevTools? And within a large organization, how do you determine who to reach out to?
Filip Nakov (11:04)
So like this is where it gets really interesting and where most companies kind of get it wrong from our experience. Because when people hear like ICP, they think, okay, who's my buyer, right? And they write down like a senior developer at a mid-sized company and they think like they're done.
That's not how it usually works, especially not when you are targeting enterprises. So when we define, like an enterprise ICP, we are not just like talking about one single person. Like I said, we're talking about the entire buying committee. And this is the part that most DevTools companies like completely miss. Like your ICP is not a person, it's a structure.
It's a system of people who all need to say yes before the deal actually closes. So for example, let's take like something like, don't know, like bright data, a popular company. Their buyer is not just a developer, right? Inside that ideal customer persona, there's the developer who's the champion.
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (12:13)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Filip Nakov (12:26)
This is the person who founded the tool, right? Loves it, wants to use it. Then there's the CTO who's kind of the gatekeeper. They need to kind of approve the technical decision. Then there's maybe security because in enterprise, right? Like anything that touches data or infrastructure goes through a security review in one shape or form. And sometimes there's even like a procurement on top of that.
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (12:54)
got it.
Filip Nakov (12:54)
So
when we work on defining the entire enterprise ICP, we kind of map out like the entire buying committee. Like who are all of these people that involved in the buying decision? What does each of them care about? What language do they use? What are their pain points? Because like the developer champion cares about...
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (13:05)
got it.
Filip Nakov (13:24)
documentation and ease of integration, let's say. most cases, the CTO on the other hand, they care about scalability and long-term maintenance, right? Security cares about compliance and data handling maybe. And these are completely different conversations. So on top of that, like we segment by industry.
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (13:28)
Mm-hmm.
Thanks.
Yeah.
Filip Nakov (13:53)
Because not every enterprise eats the same. Like a financial services company, like they, it's a very different, they have very different concerns than, don't know, like, let's say e-commerce, for example. So we kind of layer the segmentation. First, it's the buying committee structure that I mentioned earlier.
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (14:02)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Filip Nakov (14:22)
then that's the vertical. And then there's like the specific use cases within that vertical. And the way we actually validate all of it, it's not by guessing. So we go out there, we talk to these people.
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (14:41)
Mm-hmm.
Filip Nakov (14:41)
Our processes, we kind of choose like seven, usually seven to five representatives of their ICP. And we schedule calls with them really. We like outreach them usually on LinkedIn. Sometimes we offer like, I don't know, a hundred, $150 just for a 30 minute interview update, 30 minute of their time. And we ask them directly with different words, but we say like usually,
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (14:58)
Got it.
Filip Nakov (15:08)
What's your pain points? What words do you use to describe the problem? What made you choose this tool over alternatives? Because this is important because like the language the real buyers use is almost never the language that companies put their their homepage without the proper research. And the gap is exactly where this positioning breaks.
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (15:36)
got it. No very interesting concept you know understanding the entire buying committee and then making sure that you have something for everyone right your messaging is speaking to them but then if there are multiple people involved how do you make sure that all of them are catered through your home page like how do you decide that this is what my home page will say if there are different people involved.
Filip Nakov (15:58)
Okay, so this is really about like understanding the buying committee that we just like talked about. But how from a practical standpoint, like what do you actually reach out and in what order, right? And the answer like really it depends on your product and how it enters the organization. But let me kind of break down.
the most common patterns we see with DevDools. Usually the entry point in this case would be the developer, right? Because that's your champion after all. And in most cases, they're already using your tool or they at least they evaluate it. Maybe they're on a free tire, maybe they've tested it on their side. So they already know the product and they know they like it.
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (16:43)
Mm-hmm.
Filip Nakov (16:55)
Let's say the mistake companies make is they stop there. That's that they think, okay, the developer likes us, right? The deal will close. And the thing is like, no, the developer is your foot in the door, but they are not the one who kind of signs the contract. So from there, like you need to understand who else is involved.
And typically in DevTools, the next person up is some kind of a technical leader. Like I said, previously a CTO VP of engineering, maybe an engineering manager. Like this is the gatekeeper, right? They need to be convinced that this tool is worth adopting developer cares about. And the technical leader cares about like, I mean, the developer cares about.
Does this makes my life easier? That's what you kind of communicate on the page, right? But there's a section also that kind of communicates. Does this scale? Does this integrate with our stack? What's the maintenance overhead? What happens if the company goes under? Maybe not in the messaging, in the homepage, sorry, but somewhere on the website?
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (17:59)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah. Got it.
Got it.
Filip Nakov (18:27)
the depend, then depending like on the product and the, the size of the company, you might have like security involved, right? Especially if your tool like even touches data infrastructure or anything sensitive and in enterprise, almost everything is sensitive, right? So the security wants to know about compliance, data handling, SOC2, all of that.
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (18:33)
Thank
Filip Nakov (18:55)
I've seen countless of homepages that have that, but they don't communicate that anywhere. And what happens when the security team lands on that? They just assume that that's missing. So in some cases, like that's about the homepage. In some cases, especially about account-based marketing, you do need to reach out to multiple people in the same account simultaneously, right?
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (19:11)
recorded.
Got it.
Filip Nakov (19:24)
And that's like where your messaging kind of really needs to be dialed in. Because the email, if we're talking about ABM, the email to the developer and the email to the CTO cannot be the same, right? They're different people with different problems and different language. And this is exactly like the stuff that most companies just don't do.
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (19:30)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
sense.
Filip Nakov (19:53)
they send the same generic pitch to everyone and wonder like why nobody responds.
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (20:00)
Yeah, when you think about it, it is so first principles, right? That you need to speak the language of the person that you are reaching out to. What is it that they are looking for? What are their priorities? What are their problems? And then speak that language. I think definitely makes sense, So when a deaf tool company comes to Nakora to start targeting enterprise buyers, is there a framework that you follow to guide the process?
Filip Nakov (20:25)
Yeah, so we have like a very structured process for this and I think this is probably the most important thing we do if you get this wrong, really.
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (20:34)
Mm-hmm.
Filip Nakov (20:40)
Like everything downstream is broken. Like your website is wrong. Your outreach is wrong. Your content is wrong. Literally everything. So we kind of divide everything into two main buckets. The first is the strategic direction. Where exactly does the brand want to go? And the second one is the strategic expression.
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (20:58)
Mm-hmm.
Filip Nakov (21:08)
Like how it's actually perceived by the audience. And we go through both of these like very methodologically. So on the strategic direction side, there's our, there's two main components. First is what we call like a brand substance. That means like purpose, vision, mission, values. Like why does the company exist? Where are they going?
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (21:27)
Okay.
Filip Nakov (21:36)
What do they stand for? And I know that this sounds kind of like a flop before DevTools companies, especially, but it actually matters a lot when you're selling to enterprise because enterprise buyers are not just like buying a tool. They're buying into a vendor relationship. They want to know this company is going to be around for a few years and
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (21:50)
good.
Yeah.
That's it. Yeah.
Filip Nakov (22:05)
they can believe in.
And then it's the second component, right? It's the positioning itself.
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (22:13)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Filip Nakov (22:13)
Who's your audience? And
we talked about this already, but it's not like one person, like I said, it's the buying committee. Who are your competitors then? And what's like the main difference that makes your specific tool different from everything else out there in the market? And this is the point where I think most companies have the weakest answer. They'll say something like, we're faster.
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (22:42)
you
Filip Nakov (22:43)
We
are easier to use and like okay every single tool out there says that that's not like a differentiator No, here's like I think that the part that makes our approach different than most of the agencies we've seen We don't just like sit in a room And brainstorm this stuff. Like I said previously we go out there and talk to your ICP We choose 7 to 15 ICPs on
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (22:51)
Yeah.
Filip Nakov (23:13)
representatives, right? And we actually schedule calls with them. We outreach to LinkedIn. We end, like I said, we offer in some cases incentives. So whatever it takes, like 30 minutes to get of their time. And then...
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (23:17)
good.
Mm-hmm.
Filip Nakov (23:28)
We just ask them what words do they use to describe this problem? What made you choose the tool you're using now? Whatever tool they're using, which is similar. What would make you switch? And because what we've noticed is like over and over again in the words that companies use on their homepage are almost never the words they're
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (23:43)
about it.
Filip Nakov (23:57)
customers actually use. Like the company will say, streamline your data pipeline orchestration. That's a very common thing you see. And the customer will say, I just need to move data from A to B without it breaking every Thursday. So that gap between company language and customer language is exactly where the positioning breaks, I think.
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (24:06)
Yeah.
Yeah.
and
I'm glad I did.
Filip Nakov (24:27)
We also do like a competitive, comprehensive competitor analysis, like alongside us. So we map out what the competitors are.
exactly doing their organic strategy, their paid campaigns, their messaging. We break it down and then we compare it with what the actual audience told us. And the difference between the audience says and what competitors are doing. That's where the opportunity really is. Like that's your positioning sweet spot. And this whole first phase takes around
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (24:52)
Got it.
you
Filip Nakov (25:09)
three weeks, take it for us. It's intensive, but like it's kind of worth it because like you are building like on a real data, right? Not assumptions. So that's basically the process. Once we do that, we move.
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (25:26)
Correct. So, Phillip, that's phase
one you said, right? So once you've identified this positioning and once you've identified, then what follows next? Do you create content around that or how do you help?
Filip Nakov (25:41)
Sorry. I was reading something. What was the question, the original one?
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (25:42)
Nobody's.
So there wasn't an original question but you had said in your answer set that this is a phase one wherein you figure out the positioning and all. I just wanted to understand then what comes next.
Filip Nakov (26:02)
Okay, one moment.
Okay, so what comes next? So then we move to the strategic expression side, which usually for us it takes another week roughly. And this is where we take all of that research and create the messaging framework here. The story framework, framing, taglines, promises, all of that.
And once all of that is in place, then we start working on the homepage refresh. Then we start working on the marketing channels, the outreach.
but never before like the fundamentals are done because I've seen too many companies just keep straight to the let's run some ads phase, right? Or let's do a ABM and they don't even know who they are talking to or what they should be saying and they're just like burning money. So this is kinda our process after the fundamentals, then we execute the strategies according to the
all the research that we've figured it out and based on that.
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (27:26)
I think this is very helpful and once you've identified the right accounts, you've identified the kind of messaging, the next I think challenge is how do you actually get in? So what marketing channels or GTM strategies tend to work best for attracting enterprise dev tool buyers?
Filip Nakov (27:43)
Okay. So this is where it kind of gets interesting because like a lot of companies jump straight really to these questions, at least on the calls with us. Like they come to us and say like, okay, so what channels should we be on? And we always kind of pound the brakes and say like, okay, hold on. Let's make sure the fundamentals are right first.
Because we just talked about our entire framework, right? And if your positioning and messaging is off, it doesn't matter what channel you're on. You're just going to be seeing the wrong thing in more places. That's that. But assuming, let's say like the fundamentals are in place. Okay. And I can break this down through what we see it's working. So first, and this is.
it probably might sound boring, but content is still king for left tools. But not like the generic 10 tips for better API type of content. I think about like deep technical opinion that content that actually demonstrates like that you understand the problem your buyer already has.
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (28:51)
Yeah.
Filip Nakov (29:06)
Then second is like kind of founder led expert led experts led distribution. So not just in DevTools, but I think everywhere the founder posting on LinkedIn being active in communities and kind of sharing real insights that kind of carries that carries so much more weight than a company page just like
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (29:13)
got it.
Filip Nakov (29:35)
posting corporate updates. So leveraging founder networks, posting from personal accounts, being present in the right Slack communities, developer marketing communities.
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (29:38)
Mm-hmm.
Filip Nakov (29:50)
That stuff really works like, and third, of course, it's ABM, right? Account-based marketing, which ties directly to everything we talked about with building lists and prioritizing accounts. And this is where you kind of take these hyper-targeted lists, and then you run like a very specific campaigns against them. So the messaging for each campaign needs to be tailored, right?
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (29:55)
Yeah.
Thank
Mm-hmm.
Filip Nakov (30:19)
like the campaign targeting data companies should sound completely different than the one targeting, I don't know, cybersecurity companies. Different pain points, different language, different proof points. And at the end, then there's paid, which can work.
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (30:30)
Thanks,
Mm-hmm.
Filip Nakov (30:40)
but you need to be very careful around that because in DevTools the market is really small, right? So if you're running like broad paid campaigns, think that you will be wasting like most of your budget reaching to people who will...
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (30:51)
Yeah.
Filip Nakov (30:57)
never actually buy. Paid works, yeah, but when it's layered on top of ABM, like retargeting people from your target accounts who visit your website or I don't know, like running very specific campaigns to job titles at specific companies and
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (30:59)
Good.
Filip Nakov (31:14)
Honestly, like one of the, the, the thing that I think it's very underrated is enabling your existing champions, like developers. talked about how developers in site enterprises are often already using your tool. So I think that give them the ammunition they need in order like to sell internally. Case studies, ROI calculators, security documentations.
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (31:25)
No.
Yeah.
Filip Nakov (31:44)
one pager that can send to their CTO like sometimes really the best marketing channel is not the channel at all. It's just making it easy for your champion to do the selling for you inside the organization.
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (32:05)
Yeah, I think that makes so much sense and I think that's so underrated because you already have a champion who's sort of on your side. So then how do you make sure that they're able to propagate you better inside the organization? So while you're doing enterprise, know, sales and reaching out to people, are there any messaging formats or templates that tend to work better?
Filip Nakov (32:31)
Uh, so I'm going to be honest here. Um, I'm a little cautious about the word like templates because like in DevTools, the moment something kind of maybe feels templated, I think it's that. Like enterprise buyers, a technical companies, these people get 50.
cold emails per day. They can spot, think, a template in half of a second and it goes straight to the trash. But are there formats that work? Yeah, absolutely, right? So there's like a principle that we kind of A-B tested a lot of and we know they perform. So the first principle is like really just keep it...
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (33:22)
Thank
Filip Nakov (33:24)
brutally, brutally short, especially for the first touch. Nobody is reading a four paragraph email about like how you are revolutionizing the data pipeline ecosystem or something like that. Like nobody. Your first message should be like three, four sentence max. Here's the problem. I know you have.
Here's what we can do about it. Here's one proof point. Are you interested? That's that, when it comes to AVM, right? And the proof point is that part is really crucial. Don't just say like we help DevTools companies grow or we help these specific companies grow.
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (34:00)
Mm-hmm.
Filip Nakov (34:12)
That means nothing, right? Say something specific, like we helped this company that's tied to their industry grow organic traffic or whatever, or by 137%, for example, we drove a 34 % revenue increase through, I don't know, something. One concrete number, one result that kind of gets attention because it's specific enough that it doesn't
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (34:15)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Filip Nakov (34:42)
sound like a BS. And the second principle here really is the CTA. Like it really needs to be a low threshold. Don't just like say, hey, do you want a demo call? Let's book a 30 minute call to discuss and how can we transform your whatever pipeline. That's way too much commitment for someone who doesn't like know who you really are.
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (34:45)
got it.
and
Mm. Mm.
Yeah.
Filip Nakov (35:08)
Something more like, this something you're dealing with? Free trial or whatever in that case, low commitment that works way, way better. You're opening a conversation, not just like asking like for a marriage proposal. But really honestly, like the format matters less than the substance. Like I said.
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (35:26)
Yeah.
Filip Nakov (35:35)
the positioning, if your positioning is right and you actually understand their problem, your buyer has, a simple honest message will outperform any fancy template or structure out there. The company that struggles with outreach usually don't have like a format problem. They have a messaging problem. They don't know like what to say because they don't have
haven't done like the work to understand their buyer and their specific problems. And that goes all the way back to the fundamentals. Like I talked previously at the beginning.
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (36:15)
got it. No, Philip, it is very refreshing to hear this because, you know, we just had our first cohort of the DevGTM Academy and in that there was one lesson where we were talking about email marketing and we sort of after speaking to so many DevTools and after speaking to so many DevGTM practitioners, we also came to the same conclusion that, you know, your first email cannot be asking for a meeting. purpose of the first email is to get a response, not book a demo.
And the same analogy that you gave, right? That when you're going on the first date, you don't ask them to marry you, right? You're just trying to get like, and then, know, make sure that there is a second date and then see where it goes. So totally aligned, and I totally understand where you're coming from. So, but what are the most common messaging mistakes DevTool companies make when they're trying to appeal to enterprise buyers?
Filip Nakov (37:10)
how much time do we have, right? Because honestly, like this is really my favorite topic. And because we see like the same mistakes over and over again. Like, so the number one mistake, and I've mentioned this like a few times already, but it's worth repeating because like it's really the most common one. The homepage, which is the most important page is just garbage.
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (37:15)
Mm-hmm.
Filip Nakov (37:39)
like 65 % of the DevTool companies we work with, sometimes more, depending, their homepage reads like it's, they ask ChatGPD to write it, like enrich your data with custom workflows, supercharge your development pipeline with AI-powered insights. And you read it.
and you have no idea what the product actually does. None!
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (38:09)
Hmm.
Filip Nakov (38:10)
like the user lands on the page, they're confused and within three seconds, like they leave. I wrote a very in-depth guide. It's on our page. You can find it at nakora.ai where I literally break down how to write a homepage with the exact formulas step by step, where to, how to actually construct the sentence, where to kind of import the value proposition. It's a free template. Anyone can just like get.
And the other thing is, like these companies, I think that they don't even realize that that's the problem, you know? Some of them think it's a product issue.
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (38:56)
Mm-hmm.
Filip Nakov (38:56)
They
think like, we need like more features on our product. We need to improve the performance or whatever. So they keep like hiring more developers. They keep building the tool. And they still wonder why they don't have like more customers. And the product...
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (39:12)
You got it.
Filip Nakov (39:15)
Really? I think it's fine in most cases. The problem is like nobody understands what it does because the messaging is so generic and disconnected from the reality. So second huge mistake, talking to only one persona like I said. But I think we covered the buying committee in depth already, so I won't repeat them all of that again.
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (39:25)
Mm-hmm.
Got it. Now make sense. So if you had one piece of advice to DevTool founders who want to start selling to enterprise customers, what would that be?
Filip Nakov (39:54)
So, honestly, if I had to boil it down to only one thing, I would say talk to your buyers. Like, actually talk to them. Not assume what they think, not sit in your office and brainstorm with your team what your ICP probably cares about. Actually go out there, have conversations with real people who would buy.
your product. And I know that sounds simple, Almost too simple for a whole podcast, a word of advice, but I'm really telling you, this is the thing that separates the companies that close enterprise deals from the ones that don't. Because already, as we talked about today, the positioning, the messaging, the buying committee, the channels, the outreach...
All of that is a downstream of understanding your buyer, like when you work with a company.
The single most valuable thing we do is those seven to 15 interviews with ICP representatives. Again, you need to ask the correct questions, but that's crucial. Everything changes after that really. The company comes in thinking their value proposition is one thing. And then they hear their actual customers describe the problem is completely...
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (41:12)
Mm-hmm.
Filip Nakov (41:28)
different, with different words, with completely different priorities and suddenly the whole positioning kind of shifts. And I think that shift is what makes the messaging actually
resonate. yeah, talk to your buyers. That's it. Everything else we discussed today, the frameworks, the buying committee mapping, the channel strategy, it all starts here. So if you skip that step, you are just guessing and guessing doesn't close enterprise deals.
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (42:06)
I think that's such a powerful way to sort of end that, Philip. And I think this was great. For me, one of the biggest takeaways was that the first thing that you need to do is fix your fundamentals. If your positioning, if your messaging is not correct, no matter who you reach out, it's not going to end in a conversation. And to do that, the more you speak to your buyers and the more you understand the terms that they are using and use those terms, the easier and more relatable to their problems you become.
And then everything flows from that. But that was super sharp. And thank you so much for sharing that with us today, Philipp.
Filip Nakov (42:44)
It was a pleasure.
Disha Agarwal - Reo.Dev (42:49)
Philip, I hope everything was covered.
